[EVA] Concurrency tangent (WAS: Alternate Rei on DVD cover)

[Gwern Branwen]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Peter Svensson <sun1jack at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My view is that Shinji's turnabout leading up to it sets the context.
>> I mean, if he's being congratulated for deciding to reject pain &
>> suffering & life and for merging with everyone else, why is Pen-Pen
>> rawk-rawking there?
>
> Why is Kaji?
>
> *SPOILERS*
>
> Kaji died!
>
> *END SPOILERS*
>
> Any explanation that isn't purely metaphorical or metaphysical will fail to explain a physically whole Touji, or a living Kaji in that sequence.

Kaji is an issue for the acceptance ending, not the rejection. Why is
Kaji there? He's dead. He died long before anything started. All
that's left of Kaji is memories. If the sky scene is part of the
complete Instrumentality entity, how can he be there? If it's Shinji's
own mind's interlocutors, there is no problem.

TEXT:
In the Case of Misato Katsuragi

SHINJI:
This is the me that exists in your mind, Misato.

MISATO:
And at the same time, the me that exists in your mind, right?

SHINJI:
I must connect with all sorts of people in order for me to
find who I am.
I must search deep within myself.
I must search deep within the Misato that exists in my mind.

...

                        CASE 2

Asuka:          Where am I?

Shinji:         It's my mind within Asuka.

...

Ritsuko:        The things you perceive are the truth.

Rei:            Things within you.

Fuyutsuki:      And the things recorded in your memory will be your truth.

>> (And again, why would Gainax/Anno go to the
>> trouble of making everyone move & speak differently, separately, at
>> the ending - rather than a single unified statement _en masse_?)
>
> To reinforce the creepy factor? Personally I find the way they did it, with everyone giving the illusion of independence but still a collective a lot more insidious than just having everyone deliver a monotone "Congratulations."

Oh good grief. So if they speak in a collective monotone, it's the
Instrumentality speaking. If they don't speak in a collective
monotone, it's the Instrumentality speaking *insidiously*. How exactly
would they have to congratulate Shinji before you would think that
it's evidence against your interpretation?

>> Instrumentality is for humans, not animals. It is, even back in the
>> Cordwainer Smith stories, the 'Instrumentality of *Mankind*'.
>
> Human Complementation Project.
>
> Though I believe SEELE mentions all life as being affected in the film by it. I don't think Gainax was worried about complete fidelity to Smith, or to the actual name of the event. Also, metatextually the whole point of the scene is to do a full cast shot at the end of the show. Had they neglected PenPen there would have been sad viewers. (Of course, they're able to do said full cast shot because they're not in the real world anymore.)

They do, yeah. SEELE says 'A sacrament to unite God, humans, and all
other life forms in death.' http://www.evaotaku.com/html/air.html and
Shigeru 'No...! If this continues, individual life-forms will be
unable to maintain their separate entities!'
http://www.evaotaku.com/html/sincerely.html
But as people have said before, it's unclear how lower organisms can
do anything but die: how does a bacterium see itself in its own mind
and follow Yui's directions about reforming? Given that Shinji has
apparently been alive for a while in the EoE beach scene, something is
screwy there - if all the bacterium are dead, he should have died
within a few days of starvation from inability to digest food. I
suspect this is simply an example of someone not thinking things
through.

> Plus, what if that's the PenPen in Shinji's mind? Huh? HUH?!

That's the point.

>> On the other hand, if we take seriously the 'I want to go back because
>> our feelings were real!' lines as a reason for going back to the real
>> world & rejecting Instrumentality, his presence makes sense: one of
>> the brightest spots in Shinji's life was his home life with Misato,
>> Asuka, and - Pen-Pen.
>
> Heh. I have to love the idea of Pen^2 being the proof of how the ending functions. But as I mentioned, if Gainax wanted us to think Shinji returned to reality, Kaji wouldn't be there, nor would Touji be unmaimed. Also, big blue void in space. Just saying.

It's one detail that is hard to reconcile with one of the two
interpretations, and so is useful.

And as I've said before, Shinji has chosen to return but hasn't yet.
He's no more in reality than he was in reality while sitting on the
chair in the mist. Given that we get only brief frames/seconds of
reality during the Complementation for really important things like
Misato & Ritsuko dying (nor do we even get a hint of what happens to
Asuka!), it would be quite a break to spend half a minute at the end
in reality.

>> I find myself wondering whether we aren't making a mistake by loosely
>> using 'Instrumentality' and 'Complementation' interchangeably.
>
> I said the same thing. The problem we run into is that there is no difference in the actual scripts. Instrumentality is just Anno forcing an in-joke on the translation, despite the fact that Complementation is a more accurate description.
>
>> The scripts are very vague; in one place, it implies that one must be
>> complemented to be part of the instrumentality, and in another, that
>> one undergoes instrumentality in order to be complemented!
>
> Evangelion vague? How can that be?!
>
> Seriously though, the scripts are so awkward and contradictory that it's amazing we're able to even discuss them rationally.

We approach them with a large array of external sources and
interpretations developed over the years. The views and assumptions on
this ML are not at all universal. When I first watched the TV series
in anime club, having never heard of it before, I *couldn't* discuss
it rationally.

>> Perhaps one term means just the thorough self-analysis and
>> understanding, and the second refers to choosing, after that analysis,
>> to no longer be an individual. If we say the first is
>> 'complementation' and the second is 'instrumentality', then that
>> neatly explains much.
>
> I used Complementation to refer to the process in the TV series, where the emphasis is much greater on human souls being inherently broken and requiring others to fill in the gaps, and Instrumentality for the film, as it puts the emphasis on AT fields/human interaction causing pain and removing barriers to remove pain.
>
> I think that while these might be more accurate, introducing more jargon to Evangelion discussions is probably detrimental.
>
> Peter Svensson

But the two terms are used in both. Your scheme confuses more than it
enlightens.

-- 
gwern