[EVA] English dubbing for Rebuild 1.0

[Codename V]

Nonethelesss, English dubs are a "gateway" to get utter newbies into the
fold, who will then either watch the subtitles version or at least read on
a fansite what the english dub did wrong.

....I'm trying to find the words to articulate my thoughts...."I arguably
think the Evangelion english dub is one of the best ever made, at least
from the decade in which it was made"

the problem is simply that Evangelion is held up to a higher artistic
standard than some children's-level anime like Dragonball or Pokemon or
dozens of low-grade kiddie anime.  Those are easy to dub; what nuances are
there to change?  Evangelion, meanwhile, would be difficult to adapt even
today.

Are there points where ADV didn't "get it"?  Yeah.  Actually I think the
reverse is true; they got better at doing the dub in later episodes (even
I think the dub for episodes 1 through 7 is shaky, but in a lovable
way)....the problem isn't the dub in the later episodes getting worse; its
that the later episodes get so incredibly nuanced, that they simply
couldn't keep pace.

Be that as it may, the topic at hand is Rebuild's dub, of which there are
three (3) possibilities:
1-they get the original English dub VA cast back (obviously not all will
return, but the primary trio of Tiffany Grant, Spike Spencer, and Amanda
Winn-Lee have all said they'd like to return)
2-they use different North American English voice actors
3-taking a page from recent Miyazaki films, they use A-list Hollywood
voices, utterly breaking the mood of the film as they should have used
unknowns.

Are the dubs of "equal" value to the subs?  to clarify, they are not: 
obviously the Japanese version has more oversight from the original
creators, etc.  Nonetheless, the English dub is what a lot of people watch
as a "gateway drug" on TV and so forth, and eventually, they then watch
the subtitled version.  Thus the dub is actually of pretty big importance
in "getting the word out"

Unless the goal is to keep Evangelion small niche thing that "the common
man" isn't meant to enjoy; I think everyone who is moved by the story has
a claim on "fanship" as it were....

Meanwhile, I end up with TWO versions of the same show that I like; which
is particularly useful for series that cannot possibly have sequels.  By
the same token, I know enough French to watch the French dub and
understand what they're saying, and its fun to compare how the different
versions do it.

I am openly surprised, however, at the dichotomy between two attitudes
towards Eva I have seen:

1-the original Japanese is the only way to truly enjoy the show, and you
practically have to fansub it yourself
2-...everyone's personal interpretation or fanfic has equal claim to be
"Evangelion"!  Want to say the Angels are "really metaphysical Angels from
Heaven like in the Bible"? Fine!  Want to make your own pornographic
borderline-hentai fanfiction comic? Fine, it has equal claim to being
"Evangelion". Want to make a princess-creator dating sim starring Rei in
social situations she would never engage in in the series? Fine.

So on the one hand, Eva is apparently interpretable, and the other keeps
it really tight and constrained.

Meanwhile, again going back to Lord of the Rings.....it's like Hamlet. 
Although I don't agree with certain changes in the LOTR films, much like
MacBeth or something, it has been interpreted in a "new production" which
might not get it exactly right, but I still enjoy their enthusiasm.  Was
the mid-1990's Claire Danes/Leonardo Romeo+Juliet a "great adaptation"?
Not exactly, but it was "entertaining in its own way", and was put in
terms (modern setting) that "the common people who don't normally watch
this kind of thing" would find acceptable.

because I already know *you all* are smart enough to understand the show,
but what then?  do we remain a small Rousseau-esque artists conclave that
has forsaken society as a whole?  Or, a la John Stuart Mill in "On
Liberty", should we try to spread this message of a story to the masses?

Similarly, Lord of the Rings could have stayed a book.  It did get dumbed
down a bit turning it into a movie  (simply due to length issues).  And
there were some people saying "why turn this book into a movie at all?" 
well, because its a good story and I want it shared with others.  Isn't
the entire concept behind fandom and...hosting panels at conventions on a
show and everything, to help out other fans and share your collective
interest with them?  There were those who said Lord of the Rings as a live
action film was a pipe dream...where are they *now*?

but I digress.....


the point is, that it is wrong to treat bad dubs as a foregone conclusion;
I comprehend that many of you don't personally "prefer" them, but they
still affect how well a show is received.

--V

("Man is least himself when he speaks in his own person.  Give him a mask,
and he will tell you the Truth" -- Oscar Wilde)

>> ....I hear a lot of backlash against the English dubbers....largely
>> because they aren't speaking Japanese.
>
> No, and it's not even because they're don't want to watch the real thing,
> it's because there are those, like you, who profess that it's the same
> thing, which is absolutely untrue.
>
>> While I do think there are quite a few differences with the original
>> Japanese (some of which I am painfully aware of where ADV misinterpreted
>> a
>> scene)
>
> I thought it was the "same script"?  Why the sudden change of opinion?
>
>>....specifically what scenes are you thinking of when you say that
>> ADV "buddied it down", dumbed it down, for mass consumption?  besides
>> the
>> couple of translation mistakes; when did they "dumb it down"?
>
> How about the entire thing?  Take a weekend sometime, sit down, and just
> take a random episode, particularly one from the latter half, watch it in
> English, and then watch it in Japanese.  It's certain to be an eye-opening
> experience for you.
>
> If you'd like one very specific example, I can oblige.  In episode 18,
> there is a school scene in which Asuka enters the classroom.  Shinji asks
> why she left earlier than him, yet arrived earlier.  Asuka's response is
> that she didn't want to have to see them.  At that point, she (off camera)
> begins to angrily take her seat and remove items from her bag.  It's a
> scene that is meant to convey a feeling of anger and tension.  Now, in the
> English, the off camera portion of the scene involves additional  lines
> that makes it sound like Asuka is beating up on Shinji, changing the
> entire tone of the scene from one of tension, to one of physical comedy.
>
> There are many such examples of this.  Some are very obvious, some are
> very subtle, but they are numerous, and I consider them an abstraction
> that is in no way true to Anno's artistic vision.
>
> --Aaron
>
>
>